tv Quadriga - The International Talk Show LINKTV September 9, 2018 10:00pm-10:31pm PDT
welcome to quadriga a recent string of violent right wing protests in the eastern german city of cabinets some involving intimidation of foreigners hitler salutes and mob violence. has prompted consterernation worldwide and soul searching here at home. but this week it was other images that made headlines as sixty thousand people assembled. for concert get it dedicated to taking a standd against xena phobia and five initiaiated by a local band including prominent critics. the concerts model was we are more it began with a
moment of silence for the victim of the attack the prompted the initial protests. a young man who was stabbed allegedly by migrants now in detention. the far right can germany defeat its demands that's our topic this week on quadriga and here are our guests. it's a pleasure to welcome back to come to take back to the program his chief europe correspondent for politico and he says germany's demons are necessary and will never be overcome. the question is whether germany's political elite is trying to frighten lessons from history the events of the past week suggest they're not. and it's a pleasure to have valerie who they're with us she's political correspondent in the berlin bureau of spiegel online and she's been reporting. on candidates bafta community is gradually merging with right wing extremist groups in germany she says if the moderates in the party failed to take a stand against this development. they will inevitably be dominated by radicals.
and finally i'm very glad from start to their lives into fear echo also has been reporting from cabinets. she says the events in can that's have the potential to further divide german. society. so we have seen to startlingly different faces of cabinets over the past ten days we've heard dramatically opposing views about what actually happened there on sunday august. twenty six so you linda have been reporting from can it's not like to ask you to get a started by giving us your sense of who is behind the violence. and where can it's really comes down which is the face of cabinets. the question of something that the people there are some self i think i've i've talked to people from both sides as we can say. of initiative some people that are very engaged in fighting right wing extremism for many many years and they sat the that
the they never got the support they wanted to actually. law law that that's what they're saying for a long time but on the other side of people from up piggy doll not even from pick it up again. being the anti muslim anti immigrant movement that had itits birth and raised in which is not too far away from him its exactly in people that are you know go to the demonstration that maybe not part of forget about the understand -- you know they have their fears and they actually fear the violence of the didifferent fares here in te same city that that was my sends and of course i've been there for the concert and it was it was a very nice atmosphere. but of course the question is -- as but it was nice for the one side and the other one side of the the other side will it include you know will it be it cannot be included with the society -- divided by that or not and we want to pick up on that question matter just coming back to the concert it was certainly aimed at showing a
different face. of cabinets than the one that would see in a during the protests and the mob violence. it did draw sixty five thousand people your opening statement said the political elite doesn't seem to be learning the right lessons from history what about the people themselves what about those concert goers. well i think that's an open question i i would say that we don't really know yet if you if you put on a free concert with some of the most popular bands in germany. it's i inevitable that you'e gonna have thousands of people come whether most of those people were there for political reasons i don't know it's interesting that a few days before the concert there was a demonstration also. in cabinets and depending on which numbers you believe they range from about 800-021-1000 roughly evenly divided between sort of you know more right wing oriented groups and even neo * groups. and people who were arguing the other side. it's not a lot really right after everything that had happened in the previous ten days you know roughly ten thousand people show up five thousand to protest the the
these* attacks. doesn't really suggests to me that there's a sort of wave of anti* sentiment in the country at the moment to the point that people are going to go out onto the street that's what i thought was fascinating that when they had the concert. which i think was on a monday a you had sixty five thousand people there as you said and yet for this other protest which was really much more political which was on a sunday you only had a smattering of of of people show up. valley their families calls a since the riots in cabinets. for people to take a stand to stand up naive to think that a concert can make a difference. i think that for the people who live there who are on the left wing spectrum is actually important to see that they have support within. the german society [inaudible] however. of course this is one concert one day as matthew is saying. and it's probably not going to make a huge difference in
the political legislation that we're going to see come forward. now from from the saxonian government i don't think that that would change much but i do think that. for the people living there who are on the left it was very important however. also for the people on the right they obviously they're going to be angry about that and they're gonna probably a respond in some way as well and in fact we have voices from kenneth sarah. that show us says some of those divisions let's hear the voices both of some of those who attended and those who organized the event. it's cool that so many young people have come to show their r support for cabinet. did not. is most people here quite normal theyey believe in democracyf it all right wing is. we wouldn't want them here.
one of my do not the concert should be neutral not against the right but simply for peace. this way was too provocative political [inaudible] the legal. this list as we are here this is not the left battling the rights you in the film come feeling skiing that i stand this is crucia. anybody with a sense of decency whatever his or her stand up to a mob violence right wing extremists a six foot. on this i is guns least i is very important that we hold this kind of thing. one isis still a snowball. before it turns into an avalanche still on the force tonight living loving of the team on the from the linda your opening statement referred to the rising divisions in. german society we heard a voice -- one person in that piece saying that a concert like this deepens the divisions because it's against a group within society would you say there's something to that argument who. yes i think so i mean i i agree with compete no i think it should be a about leleft or right i think
everybody in germany should actually be against right. wing extremism and we have right and left us no problem to it but if it comes to extremism you just you know should brace of voice and with history we have. this this this should be an important test for a whole society but at the the consumers -- was problematic in a way that -- there was seen as the left wing and many people who care came there i talked to an old couple for example born still during world war. two they came there saying you know this is not a music extremism but on the same page we are against refugee violence here at happening in our town and we are very so. and and this was very and not a very typical situation because usually these people don't go to the demonstratation it't's an er or and that's what i was experiencing either for or against it so. you know and this is where politics has to come in. these two faces of candidates these two very different kinds of
interpretations. they look a lot like the polarization that we're seeing a lot of other places in the west germany has long prided itself on a kind of consensus tradition and its politics in fact the governing coalition. is composed of two rival mainstream. parties which you say that's breaking down and we're seeing the same kind of divisions opening up here as we have let's say in the u. s.. absolutely i think that that candidates really is kind of a crucible of that i think it's less about the town of cabinets which is it really is a small city and it's more about what people project on to what happened there. and you know if you if you go back and and look at the way that this whole thing unfolded. you know it started out as a murder by a couple of refugees apparently of a german citizen and that's what what triggered all of this violence and i think. the problem in this debate is that the the media and the society here they they kind of like lost the the
forest for it for the trees a bit because i think that most germans if you speak to them. i'd say what do you think about what happened they want to talk about what what linda just mention which is the refugee violence. okay which is. in in many people's perception a big problem and you can look at the statistics and determined that yourself whether it's the problem or not a germany still a very safe country overall. there has been an uptick in in in violent crime and murder and so forth where it would refugees have been involved in in in recent years but it is something because they've been some prominent cases. that people are worried about the been the murder of a ten year old girl in june he was murdered in the spot and there was a fifteen year old girl. in a small town in southwestern germany last december he was murdered. her killer was from afghanistan and was was was just. was just sentenced this week in fact but it is something that people are worried about and i think that there's a sense that the politicians don't want to talk about this they would rather talk about neo* and you know it's sort of
rob's. about the street you know this. is all these cases a lot they have been talking about this week in the context of campus because that issue of what happens to the carpenter who was killed there was quickly overtaken by this talk of a a hans. for for people of color in the town by neo* which now appears not to have been the case depending on whom you ask and this question of thee this threat from the right and whether or not the germanan domestic intelligee service. should put the safety party congress. this is what everybody's talking i'm going to quickly say that we will come back to some of those issues and just among because we have a short report. that i want to bring in a in a few cup in few minutes on the political. scene but if i may let me just pick up on one thing that math you sad. and it relates also to the question of how much are we talking about. a crime in the streets how much are we talking about of far right protests and who's doing the talking where and
for you valerie as a member of the online. media can you just take us through all that online media are playing in this deepening polarization and in what appears to be a certain discrepancy. in terms of reporting on crime perpetrated by migrants because clearly many people who are g goingo the streets. are people who feel that their streets are unsafe where is that coming from -- i feel like that what that's one of the issues that really was underestimated by many people especially in berlin especially in the government where on the internet has such a high potential. for just getting these people together out on the streets and protest saying in such a short amount of time. however. if you're talking about online media you have to sort of distinguish between popular online media or you know publishing houses like. i'm from spiegel online which is which is a
publishing house of fish bigots that the mainstream media outlet or facebook groups. twitter groups and where. especially right wing extremists. just can mobilize so many people so fast which we saw actually on sunday after the murder at initially happene. that they were able to mobilize a hundred to one thousand people in a matter of hours and thahat's something that i think was very much under estimated b. the government of saxonia by probably the german government as well. and by the police and that was i think that was an issue and just to that to because you said that that word the politicians aren't talking about. the issues of violence that is coming from migrants i feel like. there is. there's such a focus on it though to where. a lot of media is focusing on the specific crime. where they're not focusing on? crimes that are committed by
germans. but i think other focusing on these high profile crimes i don't know that they're focusing on the larger issue and what the political consequences of that committee and what can be and i think just to get this neo* thing is quite interesting because is it really that surprising. that in germany given especially in east germany where you had this neo*. basically hit squad roaming through the country for ten years killing people that you have this child and that you. as you houston east germany that murdered within as you said they were able to put together online you know they would get six or eight hundred people together to come to cabinets. at neo* well that's obviously horrible but is that really that surprising in a country of eighty million that you can you know that these networks exist and that they can. mobilize very. what's surprising is that you know that if they did there is not a strong stand up against it and six and has had a problem with right wing extremism full long time and actually there wasn't a strong voice. against it from the ruling party from the studio this
for me is surprising actually because still to see you know record talking about. and demomocratic values. in a strong voice to gets not every this is that the this is the comfort zone of german of german mainstream of politics is to be against not everybody's against* it's it's like being against poverty or or global warming and and this is what everybody calls out. and as we have to do something. doctors you this is one of the challenges of standing up the apparently diffuse nature of this right wing sentiment always quite distressed course because in fact as we saw also among those sound bites. many of the people who are joining these protests in cabinets would say i'm not a member of the far right i am not afraid of the fd party. but i'm not here to tell people that i don't feel unsafe street right but if you're marching along exactly as it in violence are they complicit in singapore. i would s say thehey are the and they know what they're doingg and they know they ae
marching next in the united states and this is not only the a fc many members of a if they are not neo* they're democrats. but that aft just have. their just merging with the right wing extremist groups and they have they were marching with people who. definitely are right wing extremists and are neo* and and and i do feel like the politicians that were marching are complicit. in this in a phobia that result. now the people. i feel like it's hard to judge done but on the other hand there are marching next to people who have insignia. he'll have tattoos that are very clear in their message just so i'm but this is not a reflection of the fact that they don't think that their concerns are being taken seriously by the political class. to class. of refugee bottles so let me bring in the report that shows us exactly that march and does point to that blurring of the lines between far right neo* groups and a party the a fdc that is represented in the
federal parliament. all right groups marched through can thing up portraits of people they say with victims of crimes committedd by migrants. in the bank outut politicias from the right wing populist a hefty party such as be on her cut well and for his inflammatory anti foreigner tirades. and the national leadership does not to rein him in. looks bus mine was also that he is one of the foundersrsf ththe far right t and olympc he'd a movement. inciting rial hatred. neo* and other right wing extremists were out in force many alreadyy known to the police and ordinary townspeople. this is the first time right wing populist and extreremis ofof march togogether so blatantly. the police broke up the much but its message had already come through the yeah. how dangerous is such an imagined right wing nationalist alliance?
linda let me pass that question right on to you how firm and how dangerous is this alliance between the party sitting in the federal parliament bafta this right wing. party came to power partly on anti immigrant to other positions and actual neo *. but it said it is also it's a sign that says it's a symbol also i mean we've been hearing -- things set in the in the bonus track in the parliament -- that are that are racist yeah so you know the party is setting the tone and the people on the street pick up they think it's okay to say that. there i see a problem you know i mean if that it's it's it's okay to criticize and there's a reason to criticize also on migration paul o. politics here in germany -- but you know it in the demo valerie you talked in your opening statement about the blurring of the lines would you say that this means we are seeing. mob violence actually orchestrated by the far right by neo* and would
you say that this ideology is taking on mass appeal in large ways of eastern germany or does that go too far -- well i think those are like two very different questions i don't think that there orchestrated by the estate - i don't i think they're they're more spontaneous eruption these definitely the protests are organized button the what we've seen that you know people who aren't white are being [inaudible] safe. through the streets the videos that we thought of that -- and i don't think that that's that's just an eruption of violence i would say. on and i think that the a fdc it plays a role in that as you said linda they're making it more possible for people to fit to say these things without actually having to fear anything from society they can just. go back to work they they're not thanks and for it whereas before they were and i think that's a big part.
of what the fda is making. is making possible for the neo right. now to some people would say mainstream politicians are also lower rang. the thresholds to see the phobic talk and the person i mean in particular would be the head of the chancellor sister party the bavarian conservative party he said just this week apparently in an internal party meeting. that he thinks the main problem in germany to say hoffa has he in fact help to normalize the con is in a phobia were now see on the streets. well i think we have to know exactly what he meant by that i think he might have meant that this migration crisis which and the handling of the crisis and the political fallout from it is the mother of all crises politically in germany now b because it is opened the door. in many people's view to this search a by the a fdc which you know is as as you know wasn't even on the map really in two thousand fifteen before at this happen they were in the blues talk at the time. i andnd they went from basically low single digit
percentage points in the polls to all this and 15% and and and and they did very well in the last election so i think this is to be fair to say over that's probably. what he was referring to and he's on the front lines of this because he's the interior minister as well and is in charge of the police and is dealing with this everyday also exacerbated exacerbated the end time migrants sentiment for example by suggesting germany oughta be shutting down its? border. big debate that he had with the chancellor and i think he's running scared because his bass down in bavaria they're very concerned about this and and there there is this kind of schizophrenia about it because on the other hand as you would be the first to point out bavaria. has done more for refugees than any other state they've taken and more -- they've they've been very generous in and they're their contributions to dealing with the crisis so. you have that on the one hand and then on the other hand you have the rhetoric and i think that that they have the a fdc behind them as you know and and they're there but trying to find a
solution and i think making a lot of bad decisions. because instead of really you know trying to to to find a a a an honest way of dealing with the crisis and instead of saying well we're going to turn people back at the border. to say well this is how we're going to integrate people better this is what t we're doing here here and here. you know that that there's this kind of sense still in germany and and medical even said this during the campaign as well that well a lot of these people are going to go back. you know and i i think this is part of the problem you know again to these these marchers who who were standing there next to the neo* and stuff you look like completely normal people. there's a sense that well this entire thing that we've been lied. to if you look at the numbers of people for example just as one one interesting data point yeah that that the number of people who come to germany whose asylum application was denied you end up state oka. that pool of people is in the hundreds of thousands so i think a lot of normal. legislation this is what you need legislation to deal with that and it hasn't been done and i think this is the
frustration that a lot of normal germans feel linda just taking us back to the immediate reaction to what's going on in cabinets and the question posed by our title. can germany defeat its demands in the whole federal cabinet only one minister has actually been to cabinets in the aftermath of these riots there and that's the family minister who herself has a background of from. eastern germany what's going on where are the rest of the government of politicians and should they be standing up in a different way. well i've been actually interviewed her when she was in cabinets and i think she did a really good job you know bringing in the the civil society talking to them and and'vtalked to them and they would have you know for years nobody has talked to us yeah. so i mean it's it's it's important for politicians also to look at these remote areas can it's you know this is the in town in a very typical eastern german town you know big streets socialistic architecture really liked. the place where you coming to and say okay yeah this is interesting here but you
know i don't feel. very good here coming up the for side yeah so you know and she did a very good job giving the feeling that we're looking for here but of course i mean it's a question of the interior. minister why wasn't he there why was why isn't the chancellor going there think she's going but that. is not she hasn't yet but but that's right that puts that put so much pressure on this whole protests and everything that is related to it i'm not sure that she should i'm i'm really not sure if she should go there. because if she went that would be. i think that what has to happen is that saxony has to deal with this issue of the state in which cabinet stand also dressed in of the birthplace of thank you to movement are both located and the governor. is a really hard profession because he's now he's young he has to win. an election next year and he has the a fdc he with definitely chasing him in the polls. and he's a very conservative
but on the other hand he has to stand up against these right wing extremists and i think that's what we're not saying that's what i would say. metal to metal faster that's where it a problem don't have a lot of time and i think if the demon xenophobia populism nationalism extremely tough challenge facing politicians all over the west what do they need to do here in germany now. well i think they need to admit the mistakes that they've madee and say you know a lot of what's happened over the past three yearars didn't didn't go wel and we're now we're trying to fix the situation. instead of denying that in trying to change the subject all the time and that's why i think medical should go to kevin as i think she needs to go there. really you know -- take this this issue head on and thank you very much to all of you for being with us and thanks to you out there for turning and say so z]
danial: 4.3 billion people live a across this v vast contit called asia, and we are telling their storieies. on this editition, babattling polioio. healalth workers d defy danger to p put an end toto polio ininakistan. and, dry no mo.. rurural communities.poorest i'm danial khahan, and this is "aigignment ia."."